• PRO

    For example if you look at one of the works of Tracey...

    Is a pile of laundry art? Challenging an earlier debate

    This is my first debate, so greeting to all who read it :). After reading an earlier debate involving the con (1) the area of the debate i am referring to is in round 2. I did comment the following statement but i thought it might be interesting to take this into a debate. I would have to say that a pile of laundry could in fact be art. For example if you look at one of the works of Tracey Emin entitled 'My Bed', Emin presents us with nothing more than an untidy bed surrounded by various personal items such as dirty underwear, sheets, cigarette ends, empty alcohol bottles etc. Whilst you could argue that this could be classed as lazy art you also have the reasoning behind the creation of the work which is Emin giving us an insight into a part of her life where she suffered a mental breakdown. The 'mess' around the bed alluding to the mental state of Emin during this time, the fact that the bed was in fact Emins actual bed and the fact that during this time she spent countless hours suffering in this bed....gives us such a personal insight into the world of the artist which revolutionises your view of the bed. No longer is it a conglomeration of random items but a personal expression of suffering and pain expressed. Therefor a pile of laundry could very much so 'be art', it could allude to any form of methodology...Identity, Feminism, Social History to name but a few along with being a direct representation of the artists and maybe the perceived role that person has had to take in society in order to progress through life. Speaking as a female artist i could easily tie my under ware to the end of a pole and proceed to produced painted works that are a representation of the submissive and responsible role that i as a woman have time and time again been expected to take in society and then photograph myself whilst doing this and exhibit the photographic images as a serious yet slightly humorous statement.....would this be considered lazy art?...to some yes but to those who take the time to understand the meaning behind the work then the answer in my opinion would be no...it would not be considered lazy art but instead an expression of emotion, frustration and an attempt to reach out and bring awareness to that specific issue along with highlighting the suffering i have gone through in trying to fight that oppressiveness. 1. https://www.debate.org...

  • PRO

    It's like comparing a film to a static portrait and...

    CMV: Most attempts to dismiss a medium or work of art as "unartistic" only serve to validate it further, since it's challenging the detractor's expectations of what art is, ergo it is art

    Lengthy title, but this is something I think about a lot. My personal philosophy (which I suppose is equally CMV-worthy and probably would've made for a snappier title) is **"Not everything is art, but anything can be made into art"**. To elaborate, if everything is automatically art, the word doesn't mean anything at all, but any materials we can find can be moulded by humans to form a work of artistic expression (this includes "readymades", pieces of natural debris that are presented in galleries with minimal or no alterations). I think that principle is broad enough to be sound, while still retaining some level of definition to the word, though I suppose from a religious 'intelligent design' standpoint, everything was created by God, therefore everything truly is already art as it was designed by an intelligent being. I dunno, I don't want to get into that hot mess. Anyway, onto the main topic, it's one of the main debates you'll always find in any artsy sphere. "X cannot be art because of some arbitrary quota it doesn't entirely conform to", "Y cannot be art because it's just a rock in a museum, no one did anything to change it, it means nothing", or more often than not, "Z cannot be art because... it's bad and I don't like it". But if a proposed piece of art is challenging your expectations, if it's giving you a visceral reaction of rejection, surely it is successfully performing one of the principle "jobs" of what a work of art should do, yes? It's challenging, it's making you think, you're reacting in some way to it, and a person (or multiple persons) have put some creative effort into presenting it. Now of course, everyone's personal definition of art is different, it's about as subjective as art itself. Hell, even I'm nowhere near na?ve enough to say something insipid like "all art is equal", of course I have my own subjective preferences, and I definitely do not put everything on the same level of artistic value. As much as I enjoy, say, *He-Man and the Masters of the Universe*, I'm not going to put it in the same universe of quality as *Dimensions of Dialogue* by Jan Svankmejer, and that's in the specific medium of western animation alone. Let's get some of the biggest elephants in the room out of the way. Video games. While I do naturally see video games as an artistic medium, I firmly believe that it's still in its infancy. There's some latent potential left to be fulfilled, for sure. However, there are a great many games that have genuinely innovated and pushed the mould, both in gameplay and narrative. The dedication to the former is a sticking point for many, as the inherent interactivity of video games is antithetical to the "shared experience" of art, to some. Every decision made in a video game makes the experience different to somebody else's, as the argument goes. I fundamentally disagree with this. For one, everything in a video game is curated. No matter the arbitrary path you take, it's all a part of the game. For two, comparing a video game's narrative to a film's is moot. It's like comparing a film to a static portrait and concluding that the painting is inherently worse because there's no movement (funnily enough, I have heard this bilic argument in real life from an otherwise very intelligent friend of mine). No shit there's interactivity in video games, that's exactly the point. From a tonal standpoint, I do understand the argument, there are relatively few games that have shown a comparable level of meaning, nuance or depth to the venerated works of prose, poetry, cinema, etc throughout history, though I've been to several respected museums that have had video game-themed or interactive exhibits, showing a recent willingness to open up to the idea. On some level, almost any art is interactive for people crazy enough to do so -- a public statue can be defaced or displaced to another location, a painting can be stolen, a film reel can be cut up and re-edited, a video game can be hacked and modded into unrecognizability. It is a very complex matter that I feel boils down to a totally different, alien set of priorities that applies solely to video games which other mediums simply cannot equivalate, combined with the *extremely* corrupt, unabashedly greedy and corporatist nature of the mainstream "TrIpLE AYyyYyY" video game industry that often goes out of its way to stifle change and creativity. It's comparable to the Hollywood studio system in that respect. Just about every medium has faced similar arrogant dismissals from elitists and connoisseurs. Cinema, television, and even literature have all been snarled at in the past. It's only to be expected. Okay, enough of that. Onto the next elephant, "modern art", an even more complex subject I'm probably not qualified to cover. "Modern art" is an incredibly broad, almost meaningless term (modern to whom, I wonder? The modern Ancient Romans?) but everyone kinda knows it as a sarcastic diminutive to refer to perceived low-effort, meaningless, ultra-mega-postmodern rubbish that anyone could make. There's an excellent [Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/GIsdl) album from r/Exhibit_Art that can act as a crash course. Even now, many people tend to be skeptical of so-called modern art, including professional appraisers, but I feel that the main point of many of the most controversial pieces, from Piero Manzoni's *Artist's Shit* (ninety tin cans of literal human shit) to Duchamp's *Fountain* to Banksy's self-shredding *Girl with Balloon*, is to mock the fundamental pretentiousness of the art collector community who will pay millions for actual trash so long as it's placed in a museum or signed by a respected artist. It's still art, but it can also be seen as a big reflexive joke. The story of the *A pair of glasses on the floor* in that Imgur album illustrates this well. There are more genuinely meaningful works that have similar aesthetics, like Warhol's *Campbell Soup Cans*, John Cage's *4'33* and Yves Klein's *The Void*, but in any case, all these pieces elucidate that even the most ignominious objects and abstract concepts can be tools for expression. In all honesty, I don't particularly want my view to be changed as I feel very strongly on this topic, but I hope to see some other perspectives at least.

  • PRO

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com... ... My conclusion is...

    Woodshop should be considered an art in High School

    "First of all, art class is different than woodshop class. In art class, you create products that are only for their beauty. In woodshop, you can make something that is not only beautiful, but can be useful in your life."-K-Lew So are you saying that art is only for beauty and since woodshop is beauty and useful than its engineering. So if your statement is true then wouldn't woodshop be technology/engineering and arts. "Stuff in arts and crafts are only for appearance, nothing more."-K-Kew Was that an conclusion or something you made up. There is no definition that says that in any way. Popularity: Top 30% of words Simple Definition of craft : an activity that involves making something in a skillful way by using your hands : a job or activity that requires special skill crafts : objects made by skillful use of the hands http://www.merriam-webster.com... craft (kr""'ft) n. 1. Skill in doing or making something, as in the arts; proficiency. See Synonyms at skill. 2. Skill in evasion or deception; guile. 3. a. An occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or skilled artistry. b. The practitioners of such an occupation or trade considered as a group. 4. pl. craft A boat, ship, aircraft, or spacecraft. 5. crafts Items made by craftspeople. tr.v. craft"ed, craft"ing, crafts To make or construct (something) with care or ingenuity. http://www.thefreedictionary.com... Definition and Meaning The term "craft" denotes a skill, usually employed in branches of the decorative arts (eg. ceramics), or in an associated artistic practice (eg. lace-making). A key feature of crafts is that they involve a high degree of "hands-on" craftsmanship (hence the colloquial term "handicrafts) rather than just skill with a machine. http://www.visual-arts-cork.com... See my point. " I just gave you an example with the wooden hammer."-K-Kew Your hammer example makes me question also if your even had woodshop because I don't recall anyone making a wooden hammer. "In woodshop, you use a computer-aid design program to design your product."-K-Kew Another point that makes you question if you ever had woodshop because the only time we use a computer was to make a report and get graded. What your saying is drafting. "Technology not only means "advancement in computer technology", but it means advancement in society in general. The products created in woodshop advance society because they are beneficial and can make life easier."-K-Kew What in woodshop makes life easier. A wall shelf? "The products made in art are only for show and emotion. "-K-Kew When I made my cutting board it's was beautiful and useful. From the mineral oil changing the color of the wood to a more beautiful appearance. Something only a woodshop student can understand. With this is where problems araise. If you don't have experience personal you won't relate. My source weren't about woodshop I was comparing something that is considered art when it shouldn't be according to the definition of engineering. Which so happens to be pottery. So my question is how is pottery not engineering when it uses machines like the potter's wheel and stove? Keep in Note also counter the fact that you can make bowls which are the same as pots excluding building material. "In woodshop, you use hard materials such as wood, plastic, or metal."-K-Kew This fact is invalid you use mostly wood only time you would use plastic is when you're making a pen. In the end some projects are more engineering than art but vise versa to. There is wooden bowls, magic box, and woodturning so tell me how that isn't art. The magic box is a Square with a cube inside it if that makes any sense and is used only for decoration. I cut my wood into smaller piece that are long and narrow as an artist would slash his pencil. Then I glue them together as an artist would outline their work. I scrape the glue off as an artist would erase fix there mistakes. Then I sand it as an artist would put it's final touches. Then I finally put mineral oil as a artist would put his work in a frame. My conclusion is that woodshop is engineering and art. Pen=Engineering Bowl=Art

  • CON

    Using the bible as an argument for science is a bold move...

    Science students are better than art student

    I accept and look forward to this debate however I cannot say it will be a challenge as culture is what shapes science and it was culture that shifted people to look away from god and to pursue scientific thought. Using the bible as an argument for science is a bold move if you could use it correctly to back your point up however you fail in this as using a source often regarded as a fantasy book in the scientific community not to mention the backlash that famous thinkers got for questioning the holy text and yes I am referring to Darwin himself. It is the culture of the world that allows for science to grow and flourish to make a quick, simple and often used point for my argument certain periods and advancements were because of cultural shifts which are usually the result of artist, thinkers and philosophers as art is a incredible broad term. Art students create art to promote the culture they seek and as such it can create a following which thus can lead to scientific minds coming together to outdo whatever said culture is facing example: The Cold War. Since this is a 5 round debate I assume this round is merely for accepting the debate and some small explanation as to why we are pro and con on this issue I wish good luck to my opponent and am eager for his response.

  • PRO

    I also agree with that everyone has different abilities,...

    Art and music classes should be compulsory in high schools

    Thank you for my opponent for debating with me. I agree with that some people have talant some not, but we can also say that some people have talant to solve the problem on math, and some have not. But it does not mean that we should remove the item from school program. I also agree with that everyone has different abilities, however I do not agree with that we should develop each individually. If they develop each individually, then how can they be versatile generation? People do not know in what they capable and if they have not a talent, they can evolve it with the lapse of time. Second argument, which can be provided as in favor, is when humanity looks at the portraits or pictures that created with many color, or listen various types of music, it manipulate their moods, and also help to grow morally. People can understand the feelings and emotions of an artist and composer by every piece of art and music. That is why, when people look at the creation of an artist, they can communicate with him without words. It is a big opportunity to grow spiritually, because it explains the deep meanings of artist creations. The I also agree with that everyone has different abilities, however I do not agree with that we should develop each individually. If they develop each individually, then how can they be versatile generation? People do not know in what they capable and if they have not a talent, they can evolve it with the lapse of time. Second argument, which can be provided as in favor, is when humanity looks at the portraits or pictures that created with many color, or listen various types of music, it manipulate their moods, and also help to grow morally. People can understand the feelings and emotions of an artist and composer by every piece of art and music. That is why, when people look at the creation of an artist, they can communicate with him without words. It is a big opportunity to grow spiritually, because it explains the deep meanings of artist creations. The If they develop each individually, then how can they be versatile generation? People do not know in what they capable and if they have not a talent, they can evolve it with the lapse of time. Second argument, which can be provided as in favor, is when humanity looks at the portraits or pictures that created with many color, or listen various types of music, it manipulate their moods, and also help to grow morally. People can understand the feelings and emotions of an artist and composer by every piece of art and music. That is why, when people look at the creation of an artist, they can communicate with him without words. It is a big opportunity to grow spiritually, because it explains the deep meanings of artist creations. The art can permit to see the beauty of life, nature and people. In addition, art has a power, which can influence our state of feelings, because of colorfulness, structure, and lines of paints. Physiologists assert that looking at the picture with an aggressive color, it makes heart rates increase. If person looks at picture with calm colors, it lowers blood pleasure (Flynn). According to Debra Levy music aids to ameliorate breathing and hand mouth coordination. Because of it, we can call art as a regulator of our moods. http://www.denverpost.com... http://www.wisegeek.com...

  • PRO

    Because the students who DO need to be prepared, and...

    Tourney Round 2, Debate No. 12: Art and/or Music are Important in Grade School

    First, a small quibble. Grade school refers to more than just K-5. In fact, grades up through 8th are numbered. I understand your confusion, but I think you're getting "grade" school mixed up with "elementary" school, which is K-5. If I'm reading correctly, your three arguments are, (1) Art- and music-dependent jobs make up only a small portion of the job market, (2) the State education system does not require art or musical ability, and (3) art and music are better taught not alone but in integration with other subjects. I believe I have already addressed the argument you make first. I have already conceded that art and music related jobs ARE a small portion of the job market. Several times, in fact. However, I fail to see why that means they should not be taught in grade school. The mission of the school system, as I'm sure you know, is to educate a student for every field he is capable of going into. A ten-year-old does not know with certainty what he wants to do in life, and that's why we teach a wide variety of subjects throughout the course of a K-high school education. This is why there are shop classes in high school: to prepare students for jobs they may or may not get in the construction industry or something like it. The majority of these students won't go on into these industries, yet we still have shop classes. Why? Because the students who DO need to be prepared, and because shop skills are handy for everyone to have. Notice the parallel here? Art and music skills are handy to have in life, even though most people won't go into art or music. Unlike shop classes, however, art and music are skills that can be almost infinitely fine-tuned, and, most importantly, they require an early start. Saying that art and music should not be taught in grade school is like saying mathematics shouldn't be taught in high school: 99% of the necessary math skills to do 99% of the jobs in the world are taught in grade school, which makes Algebra and Geometry seem unnecessary. However, we still teach them, and for the same reasons I expressed above. Art and music may make up only a small portion of the job market, but it's larger than the "mathematics" teachers job market, which I presume is basically math teachers and professors, and accountants. However, we still teach Mathematics in school. Art and music, therefore, being different but not unimportant skills, should be taught in school. Art and music ability are not mandated by the state because they are skills which are hard to measure. It's hard to imagine a art- or music-based variant of the SAT test, for example. You see what I'm driving at? It's not because these skills are not thought important, it's because they are hard to measure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that if the school systems thought art and music were unimportant in grade school, and thus making this a strong argument for you, they would not teach it! In fact, most every elementary school offers art education at least, and probably music as well. So, a lack of state standards for art and music is not actually relevant. In your third argument, you appear to equate art with creative, right-brain-centric, learning. This is not the case. In fact, creative thinking and art are both right-brain activities, but they are not the same thing. I reject your assumption that children can learn what they are now learning in art classes from "creative" teaching and learning methods in other subjects. To accept your premise, right-brain-stimulation would have to be the only motive for art education. However, art builds up skills that are neither right or left brained. The Right brain-left brain issue is not actually part of our debate, but I hold that right-brained teaching methods are distracting to left-brained children and vice versa, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that separate methods should exist. This, however, has very little bearing on the debate at hand. It is possible to teach art in a right-brained way, and to teach mathematics in a left-brained way, and so to treat the issue as simply one of method is irrational. The website I cited was merely meant to show the importance of right brain education, and in actual fact, the right-brain "controls artistic abilities." (http://toys.about.com...) In conclusion, art and music are skills which, like mathematics, have limited direct application in finding a job or choosing a career, but which are extremely beneficial in the long run. (Musical students consistently test higher on IQ tests than non-musical students.) Music and art have been and continue to be taught in grade school. My opponent has thus far not provided any compelling reasons why it should not be.

  • PRO

    In Con position you will be defending the show from the...

    Sword Art Online was a horrible show

    This debate is about an anime called "Sword Art Online". In Con position you will be defending the show from the criticism. Although all arguments are welcome, please refrain if you can from completely subjective opinions like: "I had fun with it" because it doesn't prove the quality of the show.

  • CON

    Art is nothing more than junk. ... Anyone can make art,...

    Art (including music) is a commodity just like precious metals and coffee beans!

    Art is nothing more than junk. Anyone can make art, and anything can be art, as long as you spend more than 15 min working on it.

  • PRO

    schools shouldn't cut funding for art in there budget...

    schools shouldn't cut art from the budget

    schools shouldn't cut funding for art in there budget because it encourages children to go to school every day.

  • CON

    However, art and music are the ways in which humans...

    Debate #26: Schools should replace art and music with calculus

    Calculus can be useful if a person is planning to become a rocket scientists. However, art and music are the ways in which humans express their very souls. If we were to end However, art and music are the ways in which humans express their very souls. If we were to end art and music, then the world would be dead and all civilization would fall into turmoil. Art does have a reason for being. It is the expression of creativity and can come in handy all the time. Some people might become scientists. What if a person wants to be an artist or a musician as an adult? If they wish to follow either of those careers, they will need art or music classes. I say too many people these days take boring office jobs. The world needs more artists. A kid should be able to take any classes that they want, and they can take calculus and art simultaneously. There is no reason to cease production of art or music classes. Both are less stressful than core classes and they allow a person to partake in exquisite creativity. Both art and music should stay alive, because when they are no longer practiced, humanity will have lost every ounce of integrity it has.