PRO

  • PRO

    The games should be considered art, you need an artist or...

    Video games are art

    The games should be considered art, you need an artist or have drawing skills for making the graphics of the video games, look at the atmosphere, the characters, the enemies, look at the landscape, everything is made by draws that make the sprites or models, that make the art style of the video game, I mean, how Breath of the Wild can't be art, or video games in general? https://i.ytimg.com... http://sm.ign.com... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com... http://i13c.3djuegos.com... Look at Horizon Zero Down http://img1.meristation.com... http://cdn.gamer-network.net... https://media.playstation.com...$ Or Journey https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... And Broken Age https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net... http://www.kotaku.co.uk... No one cared. I mean, why at least certain video games can't be art, but a few scratches and scribbles from Pollock are art? I mean, if those games were the scratches and scribbles of Pollock everybody would be missing, rverybody would be losing their mind.

  • PRO

    But in that sense, the first video game could have been...

    Video Games are an art form.

    Thank you again for your input. You really should try Bioshock by the way, it's a classic. A:Video Games Have Goals All forms of art do have goals, but in the first round you stated only video games have goals. Not all art is designed for the audience to interpret for them selves, most have a clear purpose or idea that they are portraying. You said that the goals of video games are not up to the interpretation of the player, but this is not entirely true either. A growing concept among video games is choice manipulation, allowing the player to choose whether one thing happens or another, allowing the player th interpret which goal is more suitable. You also mentioned that a painting has no time limit, but a movie cannot be enjoyed forever, only for the amount of time it gives you. B:Deliberation If the first movie was a memory, than it isn't art, because that memory wouldn't be able to be enjoyed by others. But in that sense, the first video game could have been two men competing to see who could hit the most birds with one stone. If memories are a primitive type of cinema, any type of competition or game would be a primitive type of video game. C:Creators of Art You claimed that the audience can only observe art, but this is not true. Their are many works of art that allow the audience to interact. For example, their are books that allows the reader to make the major decisions, then lets them see where those decisions take the story. Another, but less common example, are movies that allow the audience to make the decisions. As for the observation of a game, the same ideals that are put into a movie could just as easily be put into a video game. There can be many meanings behind one game, and not always are they seen, so they are not forced. The goals of a video game force the gamer to interpret it just as much as a book or movie. These goals can actually give many more interpretations than the creator even had planned. As for the Kid and the college level book, he did not get to experience the book as much as an elite scholar would, just as a newbie does not enjoy a harder game as much as an elite gamer would. In a cinematic masterpiece, the music, graphics, and storyline are all taken in as a whole, so why are video games judged differently? If the graphics in a movie suck, then no one will be there defending it's amazing story, the same for video games. So why is Cinema a form of art, yet video games are not? To clarify, I was saying that the general public does not consider video games art because the majority of games do not hold that great of artistic characteristics. But as we all know, all forms of art have their less then appreciated side to them. According to Webster's dictionary, art is a "skill acquired by experience, study, or observation." Another definition is "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination." The creation of video games falls under both of these categories. And according to the second one, "The CONSCIOUS use," says that art does not have to be originally a mistake. In fact, it says it can't be a mistake. Video games require both creativity and skill to make, so the creators should be respected as artists.

  • PRO

    You have made a lot of great points and I don't have a...

    Graffiti Art

    You have made a lot of great points and I don't have a great rebuttal, however I still stand firm in my beliefs that true graffiti art is not a wrong against the world. You would have to be a street artist to understand it, and for now I forfeit.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-Art/1/
  • PRO

    I agree with the statement 'Martial art instructors...

    Martial art instructors should not teach children a martial art

    I agree with the statement 'Martial art instructors should not teach children a martial art'.

  • PRO

    I agree with the statement 'Martial art instructors...

    Martial art instructors should not teach children a martial art

    I agree with the statement 'Martial art instructors should not teach children a martial art'.

  • PRO

    Resolution: I contend that everything/anything can be...

    Everything can be Construed as Art

    Resolution: I contend that everything/anything can be construed as art. Format First round is acceptance. Second round is arguments. Third round will be rebuttals. Fourth round is for answering to rebuttals and conclusion. Definition Definition of Art will not be given, as the very definition is what is being debated. No usage of dictionary will be allowed as an argument to define art. Also merely pleading to authority will not count as an actual argument unless supplemented by the debater's own reasoning and thought. Requirements and Rules Be respectful. Refrain from forfeits, unless a personal situation arises, in which case Con may argue in the comment section for the round. No trolls. There are no other requirements.

  • PRO

    The artwork may be any size or colour. ... In the case of...

    Skull art challenge

    This will probably be my last art challenge for a while- summer holidays coming up soon. My opponent and I will post 2 art work pieces- the theme will be Skulls. To specify "Skulls", I mean - http://en.wikipedia.org... To my opponent and readers, The rules are that: The art pieces presented by me and my opponent, may only of their own and may not be plagiarised from someone else. Violating this rule will result in loss of conduct points for that person. No digital art may be used (to help prevent instances of plagiarism). Any media/ materials may be used The theme of the art pieces have to mainly on a skull/ skulls. The artwork may be any size or colour. 1st round will only be acceptance- please do not post art work in the 1st round. In the event of an opponent or me forfeiting a round in the 1st, 2nd or both rounds, the other person can withold the right to not present a artpiece in that round or consecutive round. The opponent and I shall take a photo for each of our artpieces, and select one for each round. The images of the artpieces shall be pasted in that round, or the opponent may post a link in that round to a photo of that art piece. If my opponent is unsure, please refer to this link to see what I mean. http://www.debate.org... For voters: Please vote fairly. I have changed the settings so that anyone can vote, but I expect that all votes are sensible and are legit. In the instance of vulgarity or uncivility being presented by any side, that person shall lose his/her conduct points. In the case of bad grammar or spelling, please do not vote against this as grammar/spelling is irrelevant for this debate/challenge.

  • PRO

    What players discover, however, when first entering the...

    Bioshock is a work of art

    Video games as art The digital graphics involved in making a video game employ all the traditional forms of art: shape, color, design, lighting, cinematography, style, sound, and music. Think about it: the formal aesthetic principles used by and expressed through video games are exactly the same as those used in other more traditional artistic mediums: images, conceptual art, film, poetry, and music. Can we seriously and consistently entertain the idea that video games, as a medium, cannot be art? It seems more reasonable to say the video game is and can be a medium of artistic expression: the videogame-medium provides, as do other artistic mediums, a framework for the possible creation of art. This does not mean all video games are art, just as no one seriously thinks all images, films, and music are art. But it does suggest that some video games could be art. In addition to the purely formal, many video games offer interactive fictional worlds whose content often aspires to the status of art. Whether this fictional content is considered artistic or not depends on the particular video game in question, but there is little doubt that literature, story-telling, and world-creation, are mediums filled with artistic possibilities. Does anyond doubt Shakespeare's King Lear or Hamlet is art? Likewise, if the narrative of a gaming-world dramatized and reflected upon the human condition in insightful and surprising ways, would anyone doubt the video game's fictional content would be art? I think this much is clear, the parallel between video games and other artistic mediums -- in both form and content -- suggests a set of compelling reasons to believe video games can be a kind of art. To further appreciate a game as art, consider the difference between a video game like Bioshock and a traditional game like Chess. Chess does nothing art does, whereas Bioshock (as I hope to show) does everything good art does. Ask yourselves: if a game does everything art does, is there any reason to deny the game is art? Bioshock as a game The game begins with the player floundering on the surface of the ocean, the only survivor of a plane crash. Coincidence or not, the plane crashed meters away from the bathysphere station that transports citizens down to Rapture, and as players descend and the city comes into view, a recording of Andrew Ryan's speech (replicated above) plays. As readers may already know, the speech mirrors the objectivist philosophy of Ayn Rand, which is further implied by the partial anagram between the two names. What players discover, however, when first entering the city is anything but the idealized city described in the recording. It turns out the lack of moral restriction, coupled to the astonishing hubris of the city's inhabitants, has brought about utter ruin. The player learns that a genetic manipulation technique intended to bestown supernatural powers on its users led to Civil War, and its users (termed "splicers") turned violent and psychotic. This sets the ground for the game's primary objective: escape from Rapture. Bioshock as art Early in the game the player-characer confronts Big Daddies and Little Sisters. The juxtaposition of the Little Sister, a cute little girl, with her monstrous protector is at once surprising, strange, and beautiful. It is here that we see the art of Bioshock first emerge. Players are confronted with rescuing the Little Sister or harvesting her; if you harvest her, you get double the ADAM, which enhances you abilities and makes you stronger. The obvious, rational choice to make is harvesting the, and Atlas, the leader of the revolution in the city, assures you the girl's are not human. He says: "Somebody went and turned a sweet baby girl into a monster. Whatever you thought about right and wrong on the surface, well that don't count for much down in Rapture." The choice seems obvious, as a gamer. But the choice, of course, is made harder by the Little Sister herself, who repeatedly calls you an "angel." Personally, I couldn't bring myself to harvest the Little Sister. I saved her, and the action was accompanied by incredibly evocative scene in which I realized, at the moment my emotional attachment and investment in the game-world became exposed, that this was what the game had intended: the Little Sisters use our emotions to defend themselves. At first, I kept questioning myself, but I kept saving the Little Sisters. It seemed right, and everytime I saved them, it game an emotional high. This is the first time, in my experience of any fictional-world, that my emotions were self-directed. Think about it: in Shakespeare's plays, the characters elicit our sympathy and pity and other emotional responses, but they are always passive emotions because we are not actually involved in the fiction. Bioshock choreographs scenes in which we play a central role, and hence, the emotions are directed towards ourselves, feeling either good or bad about what we do. What is so uncanny about this is that the self-directed emotions challenge our ability to play the game rationally. We allow "monsters" to defend themselves through appeals to our emotions. We experience emotions in the game in a new and suprising way, that itself is in dialogue with past works of art. The Big Daddies evoke fearfulness, the Little Sisters sympathy. Each character and scene is designed to challenge our rationality and our emotions, as the game forces us to be active participants rather than distant observers. And the moral consequences of Little Sisters has barely been touched on yet. Notice that in most games, characters that elicit the sympathy and psychological response that Little Sisters do are completely absent. In fact, in most games, innocent women, children, and the elderly are usually not found. But in Bioshock, all are characters that force the players to make moral deliberations and reflections, which are themselves offset by their rational need to survive and escape and their emotional commitments. What is art, if not a fiction that explores all these aesthetic and philosophical elements and performs them in the viewer? Now, we come to the most artistic aspect of Bioshock: the way it thematizes freedom and the linearity of videogames as a medium. At first, the game creates the illusion of freedom by allowing players to move around freely and do what they want. Of course, players are given objectives, but the feeling of freedom is absolute. The tension between freedom and control, however, becomes manifest what Atlas tells you: "Would you kindly head to Ryan’s office and kill the son of a bitch?" Suddenly, the player-character is killing Ryan, and it is outside the player's control. Before you kill Ryan, he reveals: "The assasin has overcome my final defense, and now he's come to murder me. In the end, what separates a man from a slave? Money? Power? No, a man chooses, a slave obers. You think you have memories: a farm, a family, an airplane, a crash. Or was it hijacked, forced fown, by something less than a man? Something bred to sleepwalk through life, until they're activated by a simple phrase spoken by their kindly master? Was a man sent to kill? Or a slave? Come here, stop, would you kindly? "Would you kindly?" A powerful phrase, a familiar phrase. Sit, would you kindly? Stop! Turn! A man chooses, a slave obeys." In this revelatory scene, the player discovers their true nature, as Ryan takes control by uttering the trigger phrase: "Would you kindly?" The game thematizes the player's subconscious desire for freedom in a game-world that has already determined every action the player will do, from beginning to end. The most powerful moment in the game arrives when Ryan commands you to kill him. The player realizes that their role in the game-world, as a lived and experienced narrative event, is no different than the passive observer seen in other forms of art. Out of space, will continue next Round discussing this scene.

  • PRO

    Programming is a subject most often lumped in with...

    programming is art

    Programming is a subject most often lumped in with engineering or science, and there are countless books dedicated to writing better code, but is this a good approach? To me, it seems much more reasonable to understand it as a form of art.

  • PRO

    Because I think that art is one way to show your emotion....

    Should art be taught more seriously

    Do you really think that art will never be used? Because I think that art is one way to show your emotion. And you don't have to show your painting or art work you can let the art speak for you. Also, everybody has a different type of art and its the teachers job to show the the wold of art

CON

  • CON

    How are you going to make it accessible? ... Limiting...

    Illegal art should be made accesible

    By saying that illegal art should be accessible you are just encouraging people to loosen the definition of what constitutes art to cover a lot of inappropriate or obscene material. How are you going to make it accessible? By having special, physical galleries for housing this banned art? or opening special forums on the internet, what sort of art do you think should be accessible, art like Bill Hensen's child photography/pornography? There is illegal art that violates copyright laws that are set up to protect intellectual property, is this the sort of art that you think should be accessible and if you do make this accessible, doesn't it just spit in the face of the offline codes of legal and moral practice that protect artist's rights to show and profit from their own work? You need to define what exactly the illegal art that you are trying to popularise is because alot of material could fall in the category of "banned" or "illegal" art and alot of this material is banned for good reason, child pornography is banned and one of the materials completely banned under internet censorship even, so if someone takes your argument and calls it art, does that mean we should throw it on a website or in a gallery and let people be educated by it? Publishing and popularising material like this is not justified by suggesting it stimulates debate and discussion, the debate and discussion can occur without some of these offensive "art" pieces being legitimized by being displayed and accessible, as is evident by this debate itself. Limiting access to obscene or offensive material is hard enough to regulate without the ability to just limit people's access to physical property today considering the digitisation of almost everything on the internet, encouraging access to something so loosely defined as "art" or "illegal art" will be problematic and give an opportunity for people to abuse the system.

  • CON

    Importance, as defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary,...

    Money wasted on art works is absurd

    "In my own philanthropy and business endeavors, I have seen the critical role that the arts play in stimulating creativity and in developing vital communities.The arts have a crucial impact on our economy and are an important catalyst for learning, discovery, and achievement in our country ""Paul G. Allen, Co-Founder, Microsoft I will be arguing against the resolution that money wasted on art works is absurd. Value: Importance of value. Value, as defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary, means relative worth, utility, or importance. Everything has value. So in order to obtain anything, you have to realize the importance of value in anything, especially art. If you want to obtain art, it is going to take something of equal value. I will now give two contentions that support my case. Contention 1: Importance. Importance, as defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary, means value or significance. Art is a very valuable thing because many artists have suffered for their art. It took Michelangelo 26 years just to make the statue of David. Do you think he would want to sell David for just a couple of bucks because it's "absurd art"? Of course not. So when we are paying for something like art, we exchange it for equal value. If the artist spent as much or more time on their art as Michelangelo, then I believe they should get a very high price for their art. Contention 2: History. Art is literally a definition of a culture. Our art will be a time traveling device for people of future times. It will show our history, culture, and families. Because of this, art is very valuable. If it is destroyed, our cultures and histories are destroyed. So that's why it is sold for so much money. You can't just give art to anyone off the street. But if someone is willing to respect it's value by giving up equal value then you know that person can be trusted to protect our histories and cultures. Thank you.

  • CON

    The issue with teaching art is that what you teach, more...

    Should art be taught more seriously

    I will accept the challenge with the assumption you are referring to a more serious art programme in school. As a kid who grew up with possible schizophrenia, clinical depression, post trauma and autism; my response will be quite odd. I have never had any artistic ability and the only form of "art" I could manage, per se, was cartography, et caetera. Albeit, I wasn't interested in art in the first place. The issue with teaching art is that what you teach, more than likely, will never be used and could only penalize and hold back unfortunate students. If you are as interested in art as I would assume, even you should understand that art is something not learned but something that comes to you naturally. If it is being forced, there is a problem. I would even go as far to say that art should be purely optional.

  • CON

    18-20 century art was popular because there were good...

    art is useful outside career field

    Exactly. Outside the career field, there isn't much use of art today. As you said so, visitors cried due to the feelings expressed by art even though they didn't do art, so that rules out the use of art to a critic. 18-20 century art was popular because there were good artists that did good work. But suppose if I make one of trashy paintings or video clips, what sue will it be to me? Unless I have the skill, art is not useful for me. And if I have the skill, I would make it my career field or develop my skills by choosing it as a career field. For non-artistic people, art has no significant use in their life.

  • CON

    While it may seem that contemporary art is becoming more...

    Contemporary Art is becoming more perverse and repulsive than the art of previous eras.

    While it may seem that contemporary art is becoming more perverse and repulsive (in some cases it is beyond true) it is all based on whether the audience accepts it as art. Repulsive art could be a political statement, where the artists are not afraid to make a statement. It could also be a representation of how they feel, (I'm sure we all had days where we feel icky inside or depressed or even had dark thoughts run through our minds) and these artists are able to capture that moment. It takes a lot of creativity (or maybe even not enough).

  • CON

    I must say you do make a point that video games are...

    Video Games Are An Art Form

    I must say you do make a point that video games are art.What I was saying is that art is a skill and people making the games are very good indeed. You know this just came out of my mind right now and I never think of this before if video games are art then why don't we not hear they are admired as art should be?You admired them and I'm glad that you are , video games are more of a gaming way than admired by a few of their good scenarios and images.So really if you try put up a opinion of what would you do if you got a cool video game with nice graphics and good gaming the approximate will say that it's better to game than waste your time admiring the graphics

  • CON

    It can have a hidden meaning behind it. ... Pro says...

    Roads kill is better than art

    You can consume real art too [1]. It feels "nice and warm". Art is like a tattoo for the whole universe to enjoy. Actually, it's more like a tattoo for the canvas and canvases are better than roads so art is better than roadkill. Art can teach you how easy it is to be killed as well. It can have a hidden meaning behind it. Pro says roadkill is good ebcause it's disposable, but with art it doesn't need to be disposable because you don't want to dispose of it, you want to keep it. Roadkill is gross because you can see the brains and guts! Yuck! Also, in order to create roadkill a vehicle needs to go over it which means that one vehicle driver will have a small bump, which would be a bit annoying, whereas art is not even a bit annoying. Thank you. Sources [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

  • CON

    But how would art museums cover funds? ... Anyway,...

    free admission to art museums

    But how would art museums cover funds? They would have to pay for electric bills, Employees, Insurance, These things aren't just free. Can you tell me how we are supposed to fund these museum without admission fees? Anyway, People appreciate art museums more when they have to pay to get into them.

  • CON

    Art can be made out of anything, whereas roadkill can...

    Roads kill is better than art

    With roadkill, first you need to find a stupid animal. That can be a hard task depending on where you live. Art can be made out of anything, whereas roadkill can only be made out of animals, so it's easier to find the things you need or can have to do art. About time, it will be worth it but with modern art, not only does it not take very long to make but you can have fun doing it. It can be made just by flicking paint at a wall. http://www.youtube.com... Also, art can be made anywhere, not just on the road, unlike roadkill. Not being able to eat as much of art is good because it means that it will be preserved for other people to see and enjoy. Thank you.

  • CON

    you have 15 min to make the best keyboard art you can...

    keyboard art

    you have 15 min to make the best keyboard art you can make voting will be based on : (1)how well the picture is (1)can you see the picture (3)was it creative and new (2)is it better than opponents good luck i will start this off with a simple one ___ ,- . ___\_/ >{|||} ___ / \ __ `- ^ a bee

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/keyboard-art/1/